Immortality (immortality) Thread Archive
1. What specifically does Seth claim about this concept? How many times, in which books, and does the wording change over time?
In Session 6, Seth criticizes a common human misunderstanding of immortality: he believes that when humans speak of "immortality," they usually want the ego to develop further, yet they oppose the change that such development might entail [seth-speaks §6]. He states clearly that it is wrong to view the soul as an "immortalized ego," because the ego is only a small part of the personality, and one cannot conceive of projecting it infinitely onward [seth-speaks §6]. He also opposes the notion that maintaining the same identity unchanged until eternity qualifies as immortality, regarding such an eternity as "lifeless" [seth-speaks §6].
Seth's own claim is: the soul or entity is indestructible and cannot be lost; your present individuality—that part of you you regard as most precious and most unique—as part of the soul, will never be destroyed or lost [seth-speaks §6]. Your individuality will continue to exist and continue to grow and develop, provided it recognizes that it is both uniquely independent and merely one manifestation of the soul [seth-speaks §6]. You do not have to wait until after death to know what the soul is—the soul is not something waiting for you after death; you are the soul now, and the soul's way of perceiving now is no different from before birth or after death [seth-speaks §6].
2. What mechanism does he provide?
- Subjective life exists before birth and will continue after death; the person's greater reality exists outside the usual coordinates of space and time [dreams-evolution-1 §898].
- The individual creates multiple lives for themselves and alters circumstances and plots the way an author revises a manuscript; these creative processes occur at another level of consciousness [dreams-evolution-1 §898].
- The world is formed from the inside outward, transforming from dream reality into physical reality; these processes likewise occur at another level of consciousness [dreams-evolution-1 §898].
- Regarding the survival of personality after death, it was predicted that through a prearranged experiment between the one who has passed on and the one still living, communication evidence "decisive to the public" could be provided [early-sessions-5 §230].
3. Are there observable inferences or explicit predictions (including time, quantity, conditions)?
The material does not address this.
4. Where did he say science was wrong at the time, and in what direction should it look?
The material does not address this.
5. What experiments or practices did he suggest? What did Jane and Rob actually do and observe at the time?
The material does not address this.
6. Supplements or contradictions from other concepts in the corpus related to this concept?
Supplements on the origin and definition of "immortality":
- The "soul fantasy" or "spiritual fantasy" arose approximately in prehistoric times; humans named a part of the self "soul" and set it in opposition to another part; it was this basic idea that forced humanity to face the fact of continuing existence and to give it the word "immortality" [early-sessions-1 §24].
- When considering "immortality," humans seem to want further ego development, yet oppose the idea that such development might involve change; through religion they assert they have a soul, yet never ask what the soul is, often treating it as an object they possess [seth-speaks §6, §527].
Supplements on "immortality" and its relation to soul and personality:
- Many people imagine the soul to be an immortalized ego, forgetting that the ego they know is only a small part of themselves; that is, this segment of personality is thus projected endlessly onward [seth-speaks §6, §527].
- The personality you know yourself to be—that part of you you consider most precious and most unique—can never be destroyed or lost; it is a part of the soul, neither swallowed up by the soul, nor erased, nor conquered, yet it cannot be separated from the soul [seth-speaks §6, §527].
- Your individuality continues to exist and continues to grow and develop, but its growth and development depend greatly on whether it understands that, though it is distinct and personal, it is only one manifestation of the soul [seth-speaks §6, §527].
- Insisting that your identity remain forever unchanged throughout infinite eternity is self-limiting; such an eternity is indeed lifeless [seth-speaks §6, §526].
Supplements on "immortality" and the nature of death and consciousness:
- Life is a state of "becoming," and death is part of this becoming process; there is no separate, indivisible, specific point of death [seth-speaks §535].
- Consciousness is pulsative; your consciousness is "alive" and focused on physical reality for one moment, and the next moment entirely focused elsewhere; your sense of continuity is built entirely upon an alternating pulsation of consciousness [seth-speaks §535].
Support for life from the belief in "immortality":
- The belief in reincarnation and immortality adds a pillar to life, making life not appear to be a dead end; this can allow a person to relax and acknowledge and face their fears [dreams-evolution-2 §931].
7. Questions not yet asked
- Regarding Seth's account of the pulsation of consciousness (seth-speaks §535), can the claimed 'alternating pulsation of consciousness' be detected in EEG or MEG as periodic neural activity related to the subjective sense of continuity? An experiment could be designed comparing neural oscillation phase in the resting state with subjective continuity in time-perception tasks.
- Seth proposes that consciousness perceives in the same way before birth and after death, and that subjective life exists outside the coordinates of space and time. Can this cross-temporal consistency be tested based on changes in the neural correlates of the 'self' (e.g., the default mode network) during near-death experiences (NDEs) or anesthesia recovery? Neuroimaging literature on NDEs could be reviewed.
- Seth predicted that communication evidence could provide decisive proof of survival after death through a prearranged experiment. A preregistered double-blind experiment could be designed: the dying person agrees on a set of randomly generated codes (e.g., color sequences) before death, which they attempt to transmit after death through mediumship or automatic writing, with specificity assessed using Bayesian factors, following parapsychological research paradigms in psychology.
- If personality is part of the soul and continues to grow, is one's degree of fear of death related to one's acceptance of personality change? A questionnaire could be designed to measure the correlation between death anxiety and attitudes toward personality variability (based on symbolic interactionism), controlling for religious belief variables, to test Seth's inference that 'opposition to change leads to misunderstanding of immortality.'
- Seth emphasizes that individuality will neither be swallowed up by the soul nor separated from it—a concept that can be analogized to 'the relationship between self and whole consciousness.' Could an experiment be designed using self-construal theory from social psychology (e.g., independent vs. interdependent self) to measure whether changes in self-boundary perception during meditation or self-transcendent experiences affect death anxiety levels? Relevant mindfulness research could be consulted.
Appendix: Claim List (for Phase C)
| id | Claim | Type | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| immortality-1 | The soul or entity is indestructible and cannot be lost; your present individuality, as part of the soul, will never be destroyed or lost. | Ontological assertion | seth-speaks §6 |
| immortality-2 | It is wrong to view the soul as an "immortalized ego," because the ego is only a small part of the personality, and one cannot conceive of projecting it infinitely onward. | Ontological assertion | seth-speaks §6 |
| immortality-3 | It is wrong to believe that maintaining the same identity unchanged until eternity counts as immortality; such an eternity is "lifeless." | Ontological assertion | seth-speaks §6 |
| immortality-4 | Your individuality will continue to exist and grow, provided it recognizes that it is both uniquely independent and merely one manifestation of the soul. | Ontological assertion | seth-speaks §6 |
| immortality-5 | You are the soul now; the soul's way of perceiving is no different before birth or after death; you do not have to wait until after death to know what the soul is. | Ontological assertion | seth-speaks §6 |
| immortality-6 | Subjective life exists before birth and will continue after death; the person's greater reality exists outside the usual coordinates of space and time. | Ontological assertion | dreams-evolution-1 §898 |
| immortality-7 | The individual creates multiple lives for themselves and alters circumstances and plots the way an author revises a manuscript; these creative processes occur at another level of consciousness. | Mechanism description | dreams-evolution-1 §898 |
| immortality-8 | The world is formed from the inside outward, transforming from dream reality into physical reality; these processes likewise occur at another level of consciousness. | Mechanism description | dreams-evolution-1 §898 |
| immortality-9 | Regarding the survival of personality after death, communication evidence "decisive to the public" could be provided through a prearranged experiment between the one who has passed on and the one still living. | Testable prediction | early-sessions-5 §230 |
| immortality-10 | The "soul fantasy" arose approximately in prehistoric times; humans named a part of the self "soul" and set it in opposition to another part; it was this basic idea that forced humanity to face the fact of continuing existence and to give it the word "immortality." | Ontological assertion | early-sessions-1 §24 |
| immortality-11 | Life is a state of "becoming," and death is part of this becoming process; there is no separate, indivisible, specific point of death. | Ontological assertion | seth-speaks §535 |
| immortality-12 | Consciousness is pulsative; your sense of continuity is built entirely upon an alternating pulsation of consciousness. | Mechanism description | seth-speaks §535 |